Conversations w/ Hip Hop Journalists
Kevin Powell & Charlie Braxton on 9-11 [pt 3]

by Kevin Powell & Charlie Braxton 3/24/02

Charlie Braxton:
Since we are celebrating Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.'s life and legacy this month, I think it important to say I acknowledge that he was vehemently opposed to the war in Vietnam. Dr. King saw a link between the war in Southeast Asia and the impoverished conditions that was gripping this country. He understood that the monies and lives that were wasted away could have been used in the real war against poverty and racism here in America. And there is no question in my mind that Dr. King would want to see whoever it is that was responsible for this despicable 11th act brought to justice. But I am also sure that he would not want to see us going to war and killing innocent people to do it.

Kevin Powell:
One thing Dr. King said in his famous opposition to the Vietnam War speech given on April 4, 1967: we need a radical revolution of values. I was just at the King's Plaza Mall here in Brooklyn today and it struck me how the American flag was on merchandise ranging from dishes to neckties to greeting cards. If this is truly a war against terrorism, why is capitalism running amok all over the country under the guise of patriotism?

Charlie Braxton:
Agreed, and one has to seriously question the values of a country that is willing to spill so much innocent blood just to get a few guilty people.

Kevin Powell:
And how is this sort of extreme merchandising any different than the campaigns tied to the release of Hollywood blockbuster films? It just seems so surreal. A lot of people were not waving flags before September 11th so why does it take a major tragedy for people to become patriotic? What does that say, on a deeper level, about the collective American psyche?

Charlie Braxton:
It isn't any different from the kind of extreme merchandising that took place during the Olympics or during the Bicentennial. It's capitalism doing what it does best: exploiting people's emotions for the sake of profit.

Kevin Powell:
You know, I have been thinking about this notion of Black patriotism. Folks like that cat O'Reilly from the Fox Network seem to think African Americans are not that patriotic, or that a lot of us are reserved in our enthusiasm for this country's newest war. And it is bothering some of these conservative Whites. I have listened to this O'Reilly cat and a number of others saying these things and I think about someone like my mother, who very quietly put a big poster of the American flag on her apartment door. I did not bother to question my mother about it because it is her right, and, hell, her apartment.

But in listening to my mother I could also hear the fear in her voice, I could hear how profoundly September 11th affected people like her: working-class folks just trying to make it day to day. My mother was born and raised in a shack in South Carolina, picked cotton as a child on land that had been stolen from her grandfather (he had been killed by racist Whites in the area), and like so many Blacks born poor in this country, her entire life has been about survival. And in spite of America basically treating my mother like a second-class citizen for her entire existence, in spite of the racism and sexism and classism she has had to endure, she essentially is American and believes, still, in this country. This is all she knows, is the only place she has ever been, and will be the place where she dies.

So I think Black people like my mother have embraced the patriotism, the symbols, as a way of saying Hey, I have a stake in this, too. But because a lot of us, as we have been saying, don't remember history, we forget that we have participated in this high drama before, only to be shown the metaphorical back door once this feel-good stuff is over.

Charlie Braxton:
You're right about the profound sense of fear that is currently gripping the country's poor and working-class communities. I think that it is hitting the African American working-class communities really hard because, historically, we know that whenever the nation goes into a war or comes up on particularly hard times economically, Black folks are the ones who will eventually be called upon to sacrifice.

Kevin Powell:
Or the fact that a lot of us join the military in the first place because there are very few economic options for us in the ghettoes of America. So the military becomes both a financial and a physical refuge from the ghetto.

Charlie Braxton:
And our sons and daughters, just like in Vietnam, will be the ones who will disproportionately wind up on the frontlines, dying for the sake of a democracy and a peace we are still fighting for here in America.

Kevin Powell:
The issue to me is not whether Blacks or Latinos or poor Whites are in the military. The issue is why is the military one of the few options for upward mobility many of us have because of our race or class or gender, or all three?

Charlie Braxton:
I think that it is important to note that in the history of the United States that Blacks have fought gallantly in each and every war and not a single Black soldier has ever been convicted of treason.

Kevin Powell:
If any group has a history of being patriotic, it is the African American, fuh shizzle.

Charlie Braxton:
True indeed.

Kevin Powell:
But it seems more times than not when we have sought to cash in on that loyalty for very basic things, like the right to vote, like more resources for our communities, we have gotten that returned check Dr. King talked about, marked insufficient funds. That is perhaps what troubles me most now as I listen to urban radio stations around the country encouraging young Blacks and Latinos and hiphop heads in general to donate monies to relief funds, to join the military.

No one is bothering to ask Where is all this money going? And what is this war really about? I have seen gang members, thugs, hardcore street cats, some of the most ruthless cats around suddenly become teary-eyed flag-wavers because they have been told to do so, or because it may help them sell a few more records if they happen to be a rap artist with a deal. That is obscene and dishonest to me. And it is like we are being told what kind of social activists to be. Rappers and young people, period, who were previously silent about issues like racism, gender oppression, classism, the erosion of our Civil Rights victories, the environment, AIDS, racial profiling, police brutality, the prison-industrial complex, and a bunch of other issues, are suddenly making radio and TV commercials telling us to donate to this or that relief fund. Or to join the military. Or to support the police departments in our communities because they are our heroes. This is not to say all police are bad, but all of them ain't good either. Not as good as we have been made to believe since September 11th.

Charlie Braxton:
You're right. It's amazing how just a few months before September 11th you couldn't get some of these rappers to rap about social conditions such as racism and sexism, and you damn sure couldn't get them to offer any real critique about capitalism, the system ultimately responsible for conditions in the ghetto that we often rap about. But as soon as it became popular to rap about the flag or be more spiritual on record then, all of a sudden, you see rappers doing music videos with American flags in the background. You hear patriotic themes popping up in popuar rap songs. Canibus even recorded a rap record on his new album C: A Hollywood Story, called Draft Me.

Kevin Powell:
What has been lost in that awful battle, if you can call it that, between Nas and Jay-Z, is the fact that Nas' new album, Stillmatic has some of the strongest social commentary about this country I have heard from a rapper in a long, long time.

Charlie Braxton:
I guess when it comes to exploiting patriotism for a fast buck, even hiphop is not above reproach. It is strange how we went from Public Enemy's Fight the Power to Draft Me.

Kevin Powell:
I read in Davey D's e-newsletter (www.daveyd.com) Busta Rhymes' thoughts about September 11th, how he could not really get down with all this war mongering without more information. I thought that that was very courageous, given the climate right now. And you are right, Charlie, it is strange how we have gone from Chuck D saying he got a letter from the government the other day/I opened and read it and it said they were suckers/They wanted me for their army or whatever....

Now a little over a decade later we have Petey Pablo remaking his regional hit about waving shirts like a helicopter to waving flags. Deep....

Charlie Braxton:
Yeah, you're right.

Kevin Powell:
It says a lot about how the conversations in hiphop have been narrowed to disrespecting and hating women, bragging about material things like clothes and ice (jewelry) and our automobiles, and having little to do with intelligent dialogue at least some of the time. You and I know bragging about oneself and one's possessions has been a part of hiphop from the very beginning. I ain't mad at that. But this real narrow way of seeing the world has been going on for so long, for much of the 1990s and right into this new century, that it was not surprising to me to see such silence or patriotic agreement from the so-called hiphop generation, except for a few voices like The Coup and that cat from The Roots, and Nas and Busta.

People have been made so drunk with pleasure, partying, smoking weed, drinking, and being addicted to SUVs, name-brand goods, and mind-numbing gadgets like the 2ways and cellies that hardly anyone bothers to check what is going on in the world. So a lot of us were blindsided by September 11th and a lot of us, out of pure ignorance, have fallen right in line. Boss says jump, we jump. Boss says high, we jump real high, and so on. With minimal critical thinking. And we think we are doing something dope, if we are an artist, by remaking Marvin Gaye's What's Going On, after September 11th. If you got any level of intelligence and creativity, come up with your own critical thinking and your own songs for these times. Stop being so unimaginative, son, that when times like these come about the best you can do is remake someone else's song because you have nothing to say on your own.

Charlie Braxton:
Yes, but a major part of the problem is that corporations now own all of the big mediums which put out hiphop. And, in spite of what they may lead you to believe, those corporations largely dictate what gets pushed to the masses.

Kevin Powell:
No doubt. Five multinational record labels control most of the music on the planet. A handful of corporations control most of the so-called urban radio stations. Which is why you can hear the same 10-12 songs played in New York, Jackson, Mississippi, Denver, or Los Angeles. And which is why you hear the same messages about war and patriotism and relief funds and all that, with very little dissenting voices being allowed on the air. Does not sound like democracy to me, not at all.

Charlie Braxton:
Those corporations are the ones who made the decision that political hiphop acts like Public Enemy, KRS-1, the Coup, and X-Clan weren't profitable anymore. Those corporations are the ones who decided to disproportionately sign, market, and promote the bling-bling and gangsta-gangsta artists while minimizing the exposure that groups like Dead Prez, Crooked Lettaz, Goodie Mob, and others get. The same way they have decided who will be our national leaders and intellectuals by promoting them via lucrative book contracts and placing them on TV.

Kevin Powell:
No one is saying that certain kinds of conversations should not exist within hiphop music. What I am saying is that the dialogue needs to be broadened, the way it once was, the way you could hear on one album, for example, Slick Rick's classic first album, songs ranging from Hey Young World to Lick The Balls. Slick Rick gave you the knowledge and the gutter: balance, yo. Now some cats will prefer the first song, and some cats will prefer the second. But both songs got heard, which is the point, which allows for the use of all sides of the brain. Nowadays we know what side is being heard, which is why only a handful of hiphop cats are even looking at post-September 11th with critical eyes. But let us be clear. It is not just our generation or cats younger than us, even, who are not doing some real questioning. It is a lot of older cats, too. September 11 has messed folks up something awful across the board.

I like what Cornel West has said about America: that all of America now knows what it feels like to have the very blues Black folks have had from the time we were enslaved. That September 11th signifies the niggerization of all of America. Are you surprised that a lot of people are mad at Cornel West for saying that?

Charlie Braxton:
Word. I think that it is important to note that what happened on September 11th and its aftermath, with the Anthrax scare and all, has left a lot of cats shook. But at the same time it's waking a lot of people up. People are asking more and more questions about what's really going on in this country and world, and I think that it is healthy. But I am concerned that, at the rate this country's super-patriotic mood is going, that people who have facts that the government may not want widely known will be harassed and smeared like King, Malcolm, Abby Hoffman, and others.

For instance, look at what happened to writer Michael Moore, whose book, Stupid White Men, which offered criticism of George W. Bush and other White males in prominent positions, was, in effect, censored by his publisher, when they asked him to change the title. Moore, who is a White male for those who do not know, agreed to postpone the book in light of September 11th. But after that he was asked to rewrite or remove parts of the book that were critical of President Bush. He refused. So Moore's publisher simply placed the book on hold. It probably would have remained there for a while unless some librarian hadn't heard Moore speak at some function, where he urged people not to do anything about it for fear of complicating the situation further. But this librarian wrote a letter to her colleagues all over the country and told them to flood the publisher with letters of protest. The publisher, fearing a backlash from one of the biggest book-buying blocks in America, caved in and set a release date for the book.

Kevin Powell:
Will it still have the same title, and will the stuff about George W. Bush be stay in?

Charlie Braxton:
Yes.

Kevin Powell:
Some people might recall that Michael Moore did that classic documentary Roger and Me about corporate corruption, or that he was one of the people to expose Phil Knight, founder and owner of Nike, and some of that company's, uh, interesting business dealings, especially with regard to cheap labor in Asia and exorbitant sneaker prices here in America. Moore don't play.

What is your take on what has been happening with Danny Glover, as well as Aaron McGruder's comic strip The Boondocks?

Charlie Braxton:
The thing that really disturbs me is how much this newfound patriotism reminds me of the McCarthy era of the 1950s where many artists and intellectuals were harassed and smeared because they dared to hold different political convictions.

So today it is again all about the right-wing flag wavers placing pressure on those public figures who don't share the government's political viewpoint. Recall how Paul Robeson was literally forced out of the country because he was considered to be a Communist or a Communist-sympathizer who dared to express his political viewpoints. The same situation applies especially to Danny Glover who certainly shares Robeson's legacy as an artist/activist.

Kevin Powell:
Actually, recall that Robeson was not allowed out of the country to perform after venues banned him from performing in many places here. So his source of income was cut off completely for several years.

Charlie Braxton:
You're right.

Kevin Powell:
But I understand your point there.

Charlie Braxton:
I'm thinking of DuBois.

Kevin Powell:
The thing with McGruder's The Boondocks is interesting to me, that a comic strip could trouble so many folks.

Kevin Powell:
Anyone who knows anything about comic strips knows that there has been a history of social commentary behind many of the best strips, like Doonesbury, for example. But to see newspapers pull Aaron's strip, or to evaluate his strips day to day or week to week is a form of censorship to me. The problem is that Aaron was calling out the Reagan administration's cozy relationship with folks like Osama bin Ladin back in the 1980s. In other words, he was connecting the dots between the development of the Taliban and folks like bin Ladin then and how it plays into what is happening now. It seems to me not a lot of people had a problem with Aaron McGruder when he was criticizing Black institutions like Black Entertainment Television, but the moment he dared exercise his Constitutional right to freedom of speech on the topic of this government and its actions, then and now, in Afghanistan, suddenly it is a problem.

Charlie Braxton:
But is the truth really a problem or is it problematic for certain folks?

Kevin Powell:
Well....

Charlie Braxton:
WellÉ.

Kevin Powell:
Same with Danny Glover. It is a trip how folks are attacking him for saying he is against the death penalty, even if it applies to Osama bin Ladin. Some people want bin Ladin dead, and they are entitled to their opinion. But Glover is entitled to his opinion as well. But to paint him as an apologist for terrorists is the worst kind of manipulation of this man's life work and his commitment to human rights.

Charlie Braxton:
Agreed, but Kevin I think that we need to be very clear on who and what we're dealing with here. What's happened to Aaron McGruder and Danny Glover is really a part of a disturbing historical pattern that has to be challenged. It has to be stopped or the next thing you know we'll see many of our leaders, our families, our friends and our loved ones hauled off to jail for merely expressing their opinions in public.

Kevin Powell:
No doubt. The litmus test for whether you are patriotic or not, a true American or not, is if you speak about America and what you say. During the McCarthy era you had folks pointing fingers at each other who had worked together for years. Testifying against each other, all of that. People forget that the great Jackie Robinson testified against Paul Robeson. And it was folks like Robeson, who was a great athlete himself early in his life, who made it possible for people like Robinson to succeed.

Also, it is important to note that Glover and McGruder are essentially artists, not leaders per se. At least not leaders in the traditional sense. But because they both have access to wide audiences, as do folks like Michael Moore, they are targets for censorship.

Charlie Braxton:
I don't think people fully understand the long-term implications of laws like the Patriot Act, which was passed just after September 11th. Or even older laws that are on the books such as the McCarrin Act (this is the act that was used to detain Japanese Americans during World War II), which allows the president to suspend the Constitution and implement martial law in the case of a national emergency.

Kevin Powell:
What is up with the Patriot Act, specifically?

Charlie Braxton:
Well, essentially the law allows the government to invade your privacy and use espionage to gather evidence on American citizens once you have been declared a terrorist. And they can do this without having to get approval from a judge. They don't have to have probable cause to do any of this. If someone accuses you of terrorism then you're a target. Scary ain't it?

Kevin Powell:
Damn. So essentially a terrorist or terrorist sympathizer could be someone who speaks with a dissenting voice about certain American policies?

Charlie Braxton:
Yep.

Kevin Powell:
Wow, just like the McCarthy era and that war on Communism. Now it is the war on terrorism. Interesting. In both scenarios this super-paranoid state is created.

I saw on the news last week that about 6000 people of Arab/Middle Eastern descent were being deported from the country. What is next? I have heard people say in newspaper editorials and on TV news roundtables that if Danny Glover does not like it here he should leave. Here is a man whose series of Lethal Weapon films have come to define the American blockbuster. Who is in a film right now called The Royal Tenebaums, which is one of the best films of 2001. I have heard some right-wingers say there should be a boycott of this film simply because Glover is in it.

Charlie Braxton:
Understand Kevin, this isn't about maintaining democracy because if it was then the President would tell the people who are calling for a boycott of The Royal Tenebaums that they are acting unAmerican. These right-wingers are trying to put the economic pressure on while simultaneously scaring anyone else who might want to hire Danny Glover. Or by scaring other artists who have dissenting views to keep their mouths shut. That's not democratic at all. Danny is not discriminating against anyone, he's not burning down Mosques or synagogues, he's not beating up people who think different from him, nor is he trying to force people out of their livelihood. So what makes him wrong for not straying from his deeply held belief that no one should be put to death regardless of circumstances? I think that it is important to ask these questions and ask them boldly.

Respond to Davey D at: Mrdaveyd@aol.com

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